Discussion about this post

User's avatar
Dave Baxter's avatar

So, a few distinctions on the American political divide:

Whatever they may have once upon a time stood for (like pre-Vietnam War era), I'm not sure I agree with the definitions laid out here.

Libertarianism isn't the same as Liberalism. Progressivism is the far left extention of Centrist Libralism, not Libertarianism, which has always been extremely right-coded from the offset.

Liberals have long believed in institutions and the promise that if used wisely and justly will continue to improve the livelihoods of all. They in no way believe in "freedom at the cost of order." That is purely a Libertarian take, which in practice has never been truly Libertarian: it falls apart because they regularly say "You can't tell me what to do, but I CAN tell YOU what to do."

The thing about "freedoms" is that they are PROTECTED freedoms, not natural freedoms. Natural freedom aka anarchy or true and actual Libertrianism means the strong can do whatever they want to the weak. If everything is freedom, there's nothing STOPPING anyone from trouncing all over another person's "freedoms". But PROTECTED freedoms do stop this. And these are laws: you can't deny service, or take another person's belongings, or refuse them their day in court, etc. Liberals believe in Protected Freedoms; American Conservatives do, too, but refuse to acknowledge that they do (something you point out in the article) they refuse to acknowledge that there is no such thing as a natural freedom that can't be taken away from you, and hence the cognitive dissonance to their behavior.

Liberals believe in regulation and oversight; we firmly believe that corruption is the natural result without such, because we believe the powerful will prey on the weak without those guardrails. We believe that Oligarchy and Authoritarianism are the natural end results of lacking truly robust, backed-up Protected Freedoms, and Protected Freedoms can only come via government/institutions. Classic Liberals are hesitant to take steps that could be seen as extreme or radical whereas Progressives tend to see the need for at least occassional big swings to correct long-standing unjust practices and/or late-stage capitalist structures that have been failing us for a long time.

But the core divide between modern American Liberals and Conservatives is: Conservatives want protected freedoms for themselves and those in their group/clan; they regularly turn a blind eye to freedoms being stripped from those not them. Liberals want protected freedoms for everyone, no matter the upset, and to always consider and reconsider freedoms in light of the greater good (like the right to bear arms.) Then Progressives believe that every structure can rot, can be gamed and become predatory over time, so the need to reconsider and take action is always key, something that often clashes with classic liberals/centrists.

David Perlmutter's avatar

"Liberal: Freedom at the cost of order.

Conservative: Order at the cost of freedom."

In Canada, it's slightly different-

Liberal: You get what we let you have.

Conservative: You get what we say you can have.

8 more comments...

No posts

Ready for more?